Please, introduce yourself: what is your name, where are you from, how old are you? 

My name is Alyona. I’m from Kyiv. I’m 17 years old. I’m from Ukraine. 

And you lived in Kyiv your whole life? And your parents too? 

Yes

Please, tell me a bit about your life before February of last year.

Well, I was getting ready for college admission exams, I was applying for university. I already knew what I was going to study, where I was going to study, when…yeah. I had a bunch of tutors, I quit – I had done rhythmic gymnastics, professionally, and I quit it, because I was busy preparing for exams. That’s pretty much it. 

And where were you applying? 

I wanted to get into Taras Shevchenko National University of Kyiv, I wanted to major in chemistry. 

Tell me how everything happened. Let’s say it’s February, 2022 – how did that month go? 

I was still getting ready for university, and there were all these news about military equipment, all near the border…and I had an English tutor at the time, she was American, and we would talk about it all the time, that there were some political actions going on. Everybody knew about it, it was just a matter of time. Starting from around mid February, all of us, little by little, started to think…well, yeah, it looks like something strange is starting to happen. And February 23rd, my mom told me I could skip school the next day- February 24th. I have a bunch of photos of my brother and I playing with the dog that evening, happy that mom let us skip school. And in the morning we were woken up by the sound of sirens. And nobody went anywhere. 

What’s it like living with those emotions? When one evening you’re playing with the dog, and in the morning- that happens? 

I don’t even know, it was all so unclear. We just packed our things and headed out to our dacha¹, because we lived pretty close to the airport; we had one apartment near the airport and one a bit further. We didn’t want to stay near the airport because it wasn’t safe, so we went to the dacha. There’s nobody there, and we thought that if everything happens very quickly then it would be better to be somewhere rural, and this was very far from Kyiv, and in the opposite direction of Bucha and Irpin, so you couldn’t hear anything there. We spent some time there, but the fear is always there, that you’ll get hit by something.

I don’t even know how to ask this, but what was the mood like in your family? What were you talking about that whole time? 

Honestly, we were thinking about one thing only: first of all, we need to calm down, pack our things, avoid panic, because the more you panic the more likely you are to lose your grip on things at a crucial moment. It’s just that everyone knew about it before, it was all too obvious. If you have military equipment at your border, then it’s not just standing there, protecting you. So we just said “ok, that’s it, we’re going. We always have back-up plans of going back, but now we need to do something.” And my parents were somewhat prepared morally, and they kept saying “everything is ok. It has started, but we need to pack up and move forward.” 

So February 24th, you already left for the dacha?

Well, we left the 25th, we spent a day at home, because there were these sirens, and we were hiding in the basement, because it was scary. And then we went, packed our things, watched the news all the time – to see what’s happening. And generally it wasn’t near us, but you could always hear the explosions. So, you know it’s happening…more so…let it be not near you. 

So the 25th you leave for the dacha: that’s you, your brother – older or younger brother? 

Younger 

Younger brother, parents and dog? 

Yes 

Do you have other relatives in Ukraine?

Yes, my grandmothers – we went to my grandmother’s dacha, took my grandmother on my father’s side with us, and that’s it. My grandmothers are still there. 

So that’s six people and a dog in one dacha- how long were you there all together? 

We were there for a week. But it’s a big dacha, there’s a big private house, two floors, so enough room for six people. It has its own basement. We lived there, the problem is that there was no food. Because the first day, when we went at 10:00 am to buy something, the shelves were completely empty, as if coronavirus started again, same thing. People who were really panicked that there wouldn’t be anything (they were right) bought up everything, and so, there was no bread, no nothing. The biggest gift was when the neighbors gave us white bread, because we hadn’t seen bread in a few days.

So a week passes, and again this whole time – well, I know that if I was living with my grandma for a week in such circumstances, she panics in any situation…

Yes, well first of all my brother and I were always getting yelled at for being on our phones at night; they kept saying that they’ll be visible through the window, and that someone above will see and start throwing things at us. Because all our neighbors – they have a group chat, in this village – they were all saying: “Everyone close your windows. Cover them with black rags, so nothing is visible, lights off after nine (the light went out at nine anyway), and sit in the dark, and preferably also in silence.” This village already had its own people, who would walk around it, checking that nobody came to anyone, because this village is also near the power plant. And they were just checking to make sure that no one was there. One time, our grandmothers decided to go for a walk on the field, and these people came to them like “Who are you? What are you doing here?” And the grandmas are just walking! So there were already guards, it was pretty tough, everything by the rules: lights off after nine, so that nothing is seen.

And these people who were going around – they’re just people who live in this village?

Yes. There’s just a – we call it the village-rada²– that’s people who are in charge of this village, and they have their “own people” who they tell what to do. Well when it comes down to it, they were right. 

So you spend a week there all together, and what’s next? 

We spend a week there all together, and at that point they start to approach the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant, and we thought that this can’t mean anything good, and we need to leave. Our friends were going to their relatives in Spain, and we decided that we need to go too, because I don’t have a school or anything, and I still need to get in somewhere, because how am I going to just sit there for a year? I need to move on and do something, because war is war, but life goes on and you need to do something. So we left for Poland on March 6th, from Poland we went to Germany, then on to France, and then we got to Spain, all in a few days. 

This whole trip only took a few days? 

Yes, a few days, because we took buses; at the time they were still free. Because in Europe everything was pretty expensive at the time, and buying €300 tickets just from one side of the country to the other would be too much. So we took mainly buses, and in a few days we got there…though, I do remember that March 8th was my birthday, and I celebrated it on a train going from France to Spain. 

What did you have with you that whole time? 

We couldn’t take a suitcase, we only had small backpacks. I still have this backpack. It’s so tiny, that it fits only a few things: a small makeup bag with basic care, toothpaste, toothbrush, and that’s basically it. You you can’t fit much in a backpack, but carrying a big suitcase with you is very difficult, if you have different trains and need to run somewhere. So we could only go with a backpack. 

What kind of people were you traveling with?

There were different people. There were people simply going on their way. But I was there with my mom, younger brother, and also my mother’s friend and her son. 

Your grandmothers stayed at the dacha, and what about your father? 

My father is also in Ukraine, there’s martial law so no one under 60 is allowed to leave. 

And where is he right now?

In Kyiv

Is he serving?

No, he’s not serving, since he has never served in the army, and he also has certain health problems. Of course, if he cannot get the paper that he is allowed to leave, he has to stay in Ukraine. So he is trying to work, volunteer somewhere, help out. 

So let’s say you’re on the way from Ukraine to Poland: who is making the decisions? Where to go next, and so on? 

My mom. Well, she was the oldest – there were two moms and us, the three kids. I could have decided something of course, but I really don’t know. We just knew there was a route: we are going to Poland. In Poland, of course we were on the border for a really long time, and after that it was simpler: you just need to find your trains. 

And this whole time, the people traveling with you include both people leaving the country, and people simply going about their business? 

Yes, especially from Poland to Germany, there were just regular people in buses. We were not put in some kind of special buses: wherever there was space, that’s where they put us. We had to spend the night in Poland waiting for a bus that would have space. 

What was the mood like at the time? What did you think about, talk about?

We were really worried about our grandmothers and father, because they stayed in Ukraine, just hoping they would be fine and safe. And we wanted everything to stop, for it to be for one-two weeks and that’s it, we could come back and finish it all, because it seemed like some joke had gone too far. Not a very funny joke.

 

So you had this huge trip in the span of a few days, and you got to Spain. What happened next?

We arrived in Spain. There was a private house there, with twelve people, and from the start we wanted to stay there for a certain time and then come here, to America, because we had visas that my father, for some reason, got for us back in 2014 (when everyone was saying that we aren’t going anywhere, nobody wanted to leave for America back then). But he got them done, and they came in useful.

And the house in Spain –

This was our friends’ house, the woman with her son, who was traveling with us. She had a sister in Spain, and they housed us for a while, while we got our tickets, rested from the journey, and we lived there for three weeks and then went further. 

And “further” – this was a plane to America?

The plane was to Portugal, we spent around a day in Portugal and then flew to America from there. 

So when did you end up in America?

March 18th

 

When you’re traveling under such circumstances, does anything make its way into your memory?

Yes, I have a bunch of photos, where I’m standing with the Eiffel Tower… of course, it’s not very fun. But I kept trying to cheer myself up, telling myself that “hey, at least I’ll see something in my life like this.” You need to think more positively, that it’ll all…all end, and that’s it. 

So you were trying to create a more positive mood?

Yes, well you can’t always be sad and cry, you need to…do something

As I understand it, you had the visas in advance?

Yes, tourist visas, lasting 10 years

So you arrive in America March 18th – what’s next?

We have my father’s aunt here, once removed, and she housed us for two months. We lived in her house, she gave us her son’s room (the son is grown and no longer lives there), so we lived there. At first we really did not know what to do, because there were no news. In Europe people got some kind of asylum. Here, nothing. We were just told “Well, you can stay here for a bit. You have half a year.”

Half a year for…?

That’s the tourist visa. We were just waiting for something to appear. If we had left before the 31st, we would have gotten asylum for eighteen months, but since we left a bit later, we did not know what to do. We even called the service, and the woman there told us that she also doesn’t know anything, that nothing is known, and we need to wait. 

And this whole time, you’re probably checking the news…

Yes, of course, every day. We called my father, grandmothers, asked how they were, and made sure they were ok. It was very scary for them, every hour there’s sirens, every hour they needed to hide in the basement, they constantly needed to think about what’s happening.  Plus, by that time everything in Bucha and Irpin had started. My dad was already driving from Kyiv to the dacha and back. There was no work, no food. I remember grandma would bake her own pies, so there would be something. Our dog became a raw vegan, because there was no meat. 

This may be a very strange question considering everything else that happened, but what was that like – leaving your dog? 

Well, how could we take him with us? It would be hard for him, we would need to get him a passport, all the shots, and then record all the shots in the passport, plus he would need a separate box. He’s small, of course, but still, it would be very hard with him. Plus you need to give him food, water. But he likes grandma, he’s with her now. He’s fine there, he likes the dacha, he has space to roam there, because when we were in the apartment we couldn’t just let him outside whenever. He has his own atmosphere there. He’s very old, and sick, he needs a vet, he has stomach problems – so we had to leave him. 

So for two months you lived with your father’s aunt, once removed – were you in contact with her much prior to that? 

Well, no. She and dad were friends when they were little, and after they talked occasionally. He just asked her at some point if she could – if she had space, and she said “yes, of course” and took us in. But obviously, we could not stay with her too long. 

So you spent two months there, and how did you find a place to live after? 

Well, first of all we had to find work, and get my brother and I in school. First we found some woman, a month in, who helped us get into a school in April. I went to 12th grade, and my brother went to 9th grade. I was actually in 11th grade in my old school, but I had a lot of credits (my old school had 27 subjects per year), so they let me take only U.S. history, because I didn’t have that, economics, and then I took more economics for myself, something else to finish up. Then my mom got a job as a hairdresser, she found some hairdressers in Brooklyn who helped her get hired, and started to work, got all her certifications transferred to English, and we started to get our lives together. We knew we had to find a place to live – we were in Staten Island back then, and there we found – well, it wasn’t an apartment, it was a basement, but it was good, it had a living room and one other room. We moved there. 

You and your brother were in the same school?

Yes, it was far but very good, I loved it. It’s such a good school compared to my old one in Ukraine. When my brother was told that he either had to start attending classes in the Ukrainian one or he would get kicked out, my mom just left him in the American school, she just said “study here.” Because it was much better, really. 

What was it like – starting a new school in the middle of the year, and in such a situation?

Very scary, because I thought that with my English I simply wouldn’t be able to keep up. But no, it was fine, I even managed to talk to people. Of course I was really anxious, but generally everything was ok. The teachers were very understanding, they understood that we do not know much here, and they were always so kind, that it was unexpected after the Ukrainian school, where you get yelled at for making mistakes. It was unusual, but I never felt like I did not want to go to school. 

And this whole time, you were looking for a job for yourself as well?

Yes, I needed something part-time, after school, to have some pocket money. Because my mom had a job, but there’s three of us, and I’m already 17, I can’t just sit at home after class. It’s not like there’s homework here like there was in Ukraine, where I came home from school and studied into the night. 

How did you handle things, mentally?

I don’t even know. I can’t say it was super hard. You just need to wait, give everything time. Yes, it’s hard, because it’s a new country, new environment. My mom didn’t speak English, so it was hardest for her; she knew super basic things, but unlike me she did not study English in school (I went to a linguistic school, we had 10 classes of English per week). She had a hard time. It was easier for me; I was going to school, plus I found a part-time job pretty soon. It all just felt very unusual. 

What kind of part-time job was it? 

I still work there; I’m an assistant in a law office. 

How did things go with college? 

First, I thought I would need to finish two grades here: 11th and 12th, but since I got into 12th grade right away, it was a bit easier. I had no idea what to do about college, because I started doing this very late – I mean, it was April! Everyone else already knew where they were going, and I had not even applied anywhere. So I thought I would work for a year, maybe improve my English, and then apply. But this school decided to let me apply for free, so I decided to try. This was essentially a financial matter, since college here is much more expensive than in Ukraine. When the tuition is $27,000 a year, then it’s a lot, especially since I’m considered an international student, so it’s not $7,000 like for everyone else. 

When did you find out that you got into Hunter?

First I applied to a bunch of other universities – I wanted to apply to Hunter, but it was too late. And then a friend of mine told me: “Write to their admissions office. Tell them it’s like this and that, I really want to study here, but it’s too late to send the documents.” I did, and they said “of course,” so they accepted my application. I needed to take a language test, they don’t accept students without it. I passed it, and got in – actually, I got into all three of the universities I applied to (or, rather, the universities that the guy in the school office told me to apply to). So the three of them accepted me, and Hunter accepted me, but I found out about that 3 days before the semester started. So, a bit late. But I got the email that I got in, and that they’re giving me a scholarship for one year. I was super glad, super grateful to everyone who helped me. I decided I had to go this year; because I can’t just waste a year, especially if I’m being given a scholarship. So we got the documents together in 4 days. 

And when did you move into Brookdale?

I didn’t even know how to submit documents to this Brookdale; I wrote to them but they never responded. So I moved in only in October. For a month I just lived in Staten Island, and it took me 4 hours to get to and from class every day. And I had 8am classes, so I had to wake up at 4am. I didn’t get lucky there. 

And are you still majoring in chemistry?

No, the first semester of chemistry was really hard. I don’t exactly have the best grades for it. But really this was to be expected because I was trying to handle this new program, plus English – mine is intermediate level, but a little below the level needed for school, there was a lot that I could not understand. I had to do a lot with a translator. Plus, the program moves really fast; what we studied for four years, they cover here in one semester. The first semester, I had to work really hard. I managed it, more or less. This second semester is easier. 

And what is your goal right now?

Right now I really like computer science, I did a little of it back in school. It was just a computer club; I did web-design, programming, all that. I tried it here, and really liked it. Because chemistry turned out too hard and I never really liked it in the first place, it was just very lucrative in Ukraine. Here: I don’t know, I tried it, didn’t like it, so that’s it. I thought “ok, let’s change things.” Right now I still have time to think. 

And now, what kind of plans do you have for the future?

I would like to stay here. Even if the war ends, and my work permit runs out, I can just apply for a work visa. Well, that’s in four years, when I finish college. 

And how is your brother doing? 

He wants to join the army, go into the military, for some reason. But not in Ukraine. 

 

Do you know anything about the people who were with you on your journey? Your mother’s friend with a son, for example.

They lived in Spain for some time and then returned to Ukraine. They didn’t like it in Spain, because everything was different. The stores are practically never open. They didn’t like it, and went back, because things aren’t as bad as they were in the beginning. Yes, there are still sirens all the time, but life goes on. All my old classmates got into universities, they took their exams online. Everyone is trying to get used to this life; that you have sirens, but you’re still sitting in your class, online. 

How do you feel when you talk to people who stayed there?

I feel very bad… they… we… it’s like, I have not celebrated my birthday normally for two years, because first there was covid, and now war. And two springs in a row, something terrible is happening. I’ve never taken exams properly in my life, because when I was supposed to take them in 9th grade, they were canceled. Then I was supposed to take them in 11th grade, and again did not. And my classmates, they keep trying to study, even though they constantly have class online, the lights get turned off all the time, not even according to the schedule, they just get turned off. They can’t study normally, or do anything… Those who had the opportunity to study abroad left, and those who did not, have to manage somehow. The very process of studying now, it’s completely unreal. I feel very sorry for them. 

Changing the subject a bit, how has your relationship to language changed over the past year?

Oh, this is a tricky subject, you need to be really careful with this…my family always spoke Russian. And my first language was Russian, I only learned Ukrainian in school. My whole family still speaks Russian, and this does not mean that we do not love Ukraine. No, I love my country, it’s just that no one ever spoke Ukrainian in my family. And in Kyiv, overall, everyone spoke Russian there. Yes, there are language laws now, that say in restaurants or official businesses the staff need to speak Ukrainian – but anyway, its like if I spoke with my family in German. I don’t think that this would mean that I did not love my grandparents, who fought Nazi Germany. I’m actually studying German now, here; it does not mean anything, it’s just another language. I studied it in school, for seven years, and now here. 

Why did you study it in Ukraine?

I went to a language school, where it was required: either Spanish or German. I took German, and English. We had a lot of language study, that was the focus of the school.

This may be an odd question, but I know that the same names are often different in Ukrainian and Russian. When you came here, how did you decide how to introduce yourself?

My Ukrainian name is Olena. In Russian, its Alyona. But here everyone reads my name as Ol-ee-na, so they just call me Lina for short. But I like this name too, it’s also a Ukrainian name. My old English teacher used to call me that, so I was just used to it even before.

 

Right now, when you speak to people who stayed there, do you speak in Russian? 

Depends with whom. I have a grandma who speaks surzhyk³, everyone else in Russian.

Are there things that you feel differently about now, as opposed to a year ago? Maybe certain elements of culture that had one meaning for you before, and now have another?

I guess culture overall is just valued more now. Not just a kind of mixed Slavic culture, overall, but our own, Ukrainian. Like national clothing for example, vyshyvankas⁴. It all became more dear to me, more beautiful. Because before we had Vyshyvanka Day at school, when we would put on all this beautiful national clothing. So I had one, and then I grew out of it, and thought: why buy another? I only wear it once a year anyway, on that day. But now I like it so much more, it looks beautiful, and patriotic, I guess. 

You mentioned a kind of overall, mixed Slavic culture; do you think this concept will continue to exist?

Yes, I mean Slavic people are a group, and not just a group of people now, it has always existed; Slavic people are not just Ukrainians, there’s a small part of Russia, other countries in Europe. 

And are there elements of this shared cultural field that we all grew up on that have changed? Just as an example, cheburashka⁵, a childhood cartoon that has taken on a whole different meaning. 

I don’t think so. I remember my childhood, and I have a lot of memories, especially from our summers at the dacha, when grandma would make borscht, our national soup. My grandma is a native Ukrainian, she always likes to cook something national, she has lots of interesting recipes. Really, we always valued culture, just more so now. After the war it became more valuable. But I don’t think my relationship to specific things changed much. 

Since you came to America, I’m sure you’ve gotten lots of questions from teachers, other students, etc. on what is happening and where you’re from. How do you feel about these questions?

It’s always so difficult to answer them correctly, because you never know what is true and what is not. You can never trust mass media 100%; you can trust, but verify, so to speak. I always say that there is a war in my country, that there are battles, but I do not know anything specifically for sure, what is happening where. I know it is happening, I know you can hear it every day, but I cannot say anything for sure because, first of all, I have always been bad at politics. I just say what I see. So I can’t make any conclusions, about what will happen next. So when people ask these interesting, tricky questions, I always say that I do not know.  

Have you gotten to know any other Ukrainian families here, that also arrived now?

Yes, of course. My brother has many Ukrainian friends at his school. Here in Hunter, I have a classmate from Ukraine in my computer science class. I know a few Ukrainian families here.

Do you have some kind of relationship with them? Is there a sense of mutual support? 

Yes, of course, I can talk to them about things that I cannot talk to my American friends about. There are shared memories. Just things we have in common that I cannot talk to people from another country about, because we simply grew up with different childhoods. When I talk to them, I can mention things that other people will not understand, but for us it is part of our culture. 

Could this be, for example, a street in Kyiv? 

Yes, or how we spent our time before. For example, going to Gulliver (that’s a mall in Kyiv) after school with friends. The names of certain things; going to Poshtova Square, for instance. That was a place I would go with my best friend. 

Out of these places, or perhaps not even physical places but activities, is there something that you miss the most?

I mostly miss… I think Kyiv itself, because that’s the city I grew up in. Out of other things…I still struggle with pounds, Fahrenheit, all these measurements, I still do not know it all. I still measure everything in Celsius. I miss the metro, the metro here is rather difficult. There, it was just three branches and you just get on, and it goes in one direction. And I miss the food, of course, it’s different here, more…oily, I guess? It’s very calorie-heavy, I even gained some weight after arriving. 

Those are really interesting comparisons! Are there any other things that are starkly different in Ukraine and America, or perhaps even in the other countries that you passed through? 

The people are very different, the mentality. Here it is rather peculiar. In Ukraine people are more straightforward, I think. They say everything to your face. Here, people can smile at you and say “thank you so much!” or “oh, I’m so sorry!” and I don’t even know, I can’t always believe it. Because back there, you know people are telling you the truth; they can’t even smile realistically, if they don’t actually feel those emotions. 

You came to New York, a place that features a lot of different cultures and different people. Do you think that played a role somehow? If, let’s say, you came to a place where everyone was 5th, 6th generation American, do you think the experience would have been different?

Not really, it’s just the principle of everything feeling unlike Ukraine, simply because this is another country. It would have been different regardless. I expected that, I never expected this to be some ideal place or some kind of heaven. Everything will always be different here, and it will be hard, and I just have to get used to it. It’s not like a major problem that I can’t live with. With time, you get used to everything. Now I’m already used to New York by itself, I know what to do where and how, and more or less how to communicate with people. 

Over this whole time period, have you changed – or perhaps – formed a view on borders as a whole? 

A view on borders, of course: they can’t be infringed upon. Especially when they, for some reason, claim that they’re defending themselves: and yet they’re breaching the borders of another country, which is not very logical. I think, as I always have, that everyone has borders that cannot be breached. Doesn’t matter if it’s a country or a person: everyone has their own borders⁶. 

Do you have any wishes for people who care about this issue and want to help? Or anything else you would like to say? 

I don’t know; lots of people talk about this now, and they say correct things, that everything must end. Because even if a certain city doesn’t have any shelling or battles at the given moment; you know the war is always going on in another city. And even if someone is living in relative calm, there are always other people suffering. Even my father and grandmothers; they’re not currently under fire, but when there’s a war going on, it always presses on you morally. My father can’t work regularly now, he does some kinds of part-time jobs, and it’s very hard to support yourself financially during wartime. Just…everything must end sooner.